"The Romanian language

is my homeland"

An interview with Shaul Carmel, Israeli poet

who uses the Romanian language

By Alexandru Singer

- He was born in 1937, at Stefanesti-Botosani, where he graduated from high school - Then he went to Bucharest and took courses in literature - He started publishing articles in 1953 and made his debut in 1956 with the volume of poems 'Sun Rays' - Next came the collection The First Candle, in 1958 - In 1965 he immigrated to Israel, and his career gained new scope - He continued to write in Romanian but also wrote pieces in Hebrew - After A Front Diary (1967) he wrote Sand Flowers (1968), Crossroads (1970), Cross My Heart (1977), The War of the Wretches (1981), Late (1984), Unutterable Poems (1988), From a Dream Rib (1990 - in Hebrew), The Flight from Paradise (1993), Prayer with Flowers (1994, in Russian), Credo (1994, in Arabic) - In 1996 he published three books in Bucharest: You Are, Longing for Longing (poetry), Peace Has Killed its Soldier (together with Ileana Cudalb) n His books have been translated into English, German, Hungarian, Dutch, Serbian and Swedish - He is the recipient of numerous prizes, including the Sion Prize of the Writers' Association of Israel and the UNESCO Prize of the Romanian National Council - He is the vice-chairman of the Writers' Union of Israel and secretary of the Association of Israeli Writers of Romanian Language.

A.S. You are a poet deeply rooted in your Romanianism although you have been living in Israel for many years now. You have proved untiringly that you are just as solid a master of the Romanian language as a devoted citizen of Israel. Fatherland and Motherland resound together in you. And yet what is the difference between your Romanian and your Israeli feelings?

S. C. It could be that there is no difference. I know that Andrei Strihan was right today when he said on our way to meet the members of the Foreign Policy Commission of the Parliament of Romania: "Since I got off the plane I for one, feel I have come back to life!" To this I will add: when we get off the plane in Tel Aviv I will be able to say the same thing about myself. I am an example of a double identity which I have been earnestly and warmly supporting for such a long time, even with the tragic sense of the Jewish writer from everywhere. Today in the Romanian Parliament I said that Nichita Stanescu was right when he stated that the Romanian language was his homeland. Like any other writer in Romania I belong to the same homeland. It is natural that I should come back to life when I hear this language that I continue to cultivate even when I am 3,000 kilometers away from here. I write in this language, I live with it, breathe it, because it is possible to be Israeli, to love your country with all your heart and soul, be ready to be sacrificed for it and, at the same time, unforgettingly, be a citizen of the Romanian language, and love the country where you were born and raised.

A.S. I asked you this in order not to skirt other aspects of real life. In Solo-Har's book The Challenged Generation some Israeli writers of Romanian origin, while preserving their respect for their country of origin also expressed the idea that a double cultural identity was not something to be wished for.

S.C. I think that is merely self-denial and I am not surprised as this can happen to writers. Only that I for one believe you have no right to deny yourself. Solo gathered in that book interviews of an older date and I think it is a good visiting card for us, Israeli writers of Romanian language despite peculiarities and normally different opinions. I have stuck to my guns. For twenty years we have been fighting for our literary identity that we have finally managed to acquire. Still, we've got to acknowledge our Romanian descent and understand there is no inadequacy in this. Israel will only get richer by this. That is a young, renewed country; Hebrew has been revived in the new Israel; Israeli literature is pluralist, in full swing of development, through beneficial interferences, opening up to influences coming from all over the world. It will take everything it needs from all the cultures brought over by people. We step into the 21st century neither with a fanfare nor with funeral music -blessed are the peoples that do what our peoples do. It is true, we are talking about small peoples and countries that suffer influences and that are seeking their path in peace and quiet. Many should learn from this but I'm afraid they won't. This mutual respect between Jews and Romanians is not accidental because it stems from a deep understanding that is centuries old. The Romanian culture bears the solid imprint of our forefathers, in philology, sciences, and various other domains. Many Jewish linguists and writers have built the foundations of the Romanian literary language. And the great Romanian writers have had the best of relations with the Jewish writers. And continue to do so. Nobody will be able to forget that Romania has never abandoned its goods relations with Israel. Two days ago, at the 50th anniversary of the State of Israel, at Romania's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, in the presence of several personalities and of Foreign Minister Andrei Plesu the attributes of this uninterrupted diplomatic relation between Romania and Israel were stressed. As was underlined today in Parliament, there are multiple excellent ties between the two countries, and cultural interferences are not the least of them. This is what human imperatives can do and what can be achieved through democracy.

A.S. In other words, the fact that men of culture and diplomats have always joined hands in good faith in order to weather storms and ordeals both of the Romanians and especially of the Jews goes to show the huge resources of the intelligentsia. Those who warranted and encouraged (some still do it to this day) somber even wild attitudes of anti-Semitism, of xenophobia are not really men of culture but people manipulated by vested interests, people prey to the herd instinct, half scholars and ignoramuses with volatile tendencies, especially at confusing moments.

S.C. Fundamentalists are everywhere. We have them, too. My people will be for ever marked by the fact that a Jew shot the prime minister of Israel, the glorious general and exceptional diplomat Itzak Rabin. If a fighter has to die he wants to die at the hand of the enemy. Therefore this drama was so incredible for the morale of the Jews. In the book Peace Has Killed its Soldier on which I worked hard with Ileana Cudalb I show that fundamentalism is to blame above all, even before the man who actually shot the gun. He was a tool, the product of a type of education, of savage prodding by anti-cultural people. In Romania, the great scholars were not xenophobic. In the same newspaper where he published the article "You, Baron", for which he was sent to jail, Tudor Arghezi printed articles in defence of the Jews. He harboured in his home professor Frenkel. Eminescu was on friendly terms with Gaster and others, his poetry being free of xenophobic touches. Just like the diplomats, the scholars are those who condemn the herd spirit everywhere.

A.S. Driven by certain interests, some people try to interpret facts and attitudes with a resentment that could antagonize men. For instance, it is claimed that some Jews forget the difference in treatment applied to the Jews from Hungary as compared to those from Romania, and some historians exaggerate the scope of the tragedy of Romanian Jews during WW2. Why is it that some Jews fail to realize how the Hungarian or Romanian fundamentalists are using them to the detriment of everybody?

S.C. Perhaps because they are not familiar with or forget situations like those experienced by my family in Romania. In the rebellions of the '40s, my father, may he rest in peace, was pushed off a train, the Iasi fast train, when the king had come into conflict with the Iron Guard. He was the only survivor in a compartment of 10 Jews who were complying with the king's call. They were going to enlist with the regiments to which they belonged. He was found on the railway near Lespezi and taken to Iasi. When the news reached the town of Stefanesti where I was born and where my grandfather worked with the great rabbi Matitiahu Fridman, - my grandfather came from a family of great Hasid scholars - my mother went to the mayor of Stefanesti to ask his help to get to Iasi. At that time Jews were not allowed to travel freely. Well, the man asked her to come back the following day. He had her dress in Romanian national costume and accompanied her to Iasi, passing her as his wife so that she could see my father, confined to a bed. For me that mayor is representative. He illustrates the true attitude of the Romanian people in the sad years of fascism. To this I will add this. I have been living in Israel for 33 years and in this time I saw something that seems significant. A few years back a theatrical troupe from Poland had to return home without giving any performance because the Polish Jews reacted in keeping with what they felt in connection with their past. Unable to forget how the Poles had behaved once towards them they punished unfairly a new democratic Polish theatre. Whereas everybody knows how warmly and joyfully the troupes of artists from Romania are received in Israel. Why is that? Could it be only because of the great talent of Romanian artists? Could it be only for the sake of stars like Beligan, Ion Lucian, Florin Piersic and other great friends of Israel's? Full houses, standing ovations are a token not only of their art but also a warm salute to Romania. This expresses the true and perfect relationship into which I was born and with which I grew up. I must say though that I do not share the opinion of those who tend to ignore the worrisome revival of the Iron Guard in Romania. This scourge can gain scope anytime, to the detriment of the Romanian people. I cannot neglect either the much more worrisome scope of anti-Semitism in Hungary, associated with Hungarian ultranationalism, or other nefarious phenomena.

A.S In other words, this herd instinct can still represent a peril that must not be neglected.

S.C Anti-Semitism in Romania has ceased being a Jewish problem. It is purely a Romanian problem. There are few Jews left and the manipulation of xenophobic politicians is harmful and tends to cover up other insatisfactions of the Romanian people. Culture must and should thwart such diversions. Mirodan wrote an extraordinary play, Special Contract for Hiring People where he rails at the recrudescence of anti-Semitism by artificial means.

A.S. Perhaps we should untiringly defend, both in Romania and in Israel, the solid bridges built and consolidated between these peoples.

S.C. Proof of this is our permanent comings and goings "through the Sunday door of Romanian culture", achieved both in Moldavia, in the Parliament of Romania, and at the Romanian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. We must thank everybody, including the Department of Public Information of the Government of Romania that makes us active in an ample programme of cultural work together. Culture and diplomacy continue to contribute to the creation of universal values, to establish lasting bridges between different nations. Recognition and respect of differences can foster good common endeavour. They can counter any fundamentalist moves. May God let these mutually beneficial ties continue to be forged. It must not be forgotten that when the Jewish writers were expelled from the Romanian culture this became poorer and subject to nefarious influences. Bringing back all the sons and daughters under the umbrella of the Romanian language will only constantly enrich it. We deem highly the outstanding work carried out in Romania by Hafeser Publishers, as well as the interest of other publishing houses to put out books that are representative for our cultural collaboration. We must honour all those who support these common efforts, for the benefit of all.

A.S At the Book Fair in Leipzig, the President of Germany, Mr. Roman Herzog, stopped at the stand of Hafeser Publishers and expressed his appreciation that such comprehensive editorial activities represent the ethnic minority in Romania. He thumbed through the album, Synagogues in Romania, and appeared most interested.

S. C. No wonder. He has understood the need to atone for the terrible sin which blackening the history of this century. A Germany that enters the family of world culture should engender such attitudes as that of Mr. Herzog's. The lessons of the past breed the hopes of the future. And it is good to be so.

The Romanian born Israeli poet, Shaul Carmel was awarded the 'Mihai Eminescu' award for poetry, at an awards ceremony at the Romanian Academy, on Friday December 10, 1998. The poet stated at the event:

"I do not believe a Romanian writer, living 2,500 kilometres from the land of the language he writes in, may feel better than I do today. I consider the Romanian Academy has honoured through me, a community of authors living in Israel who write in the language of the award's namesake, Mihai Eminescu. I am happy and very excited. I would like to thank the jury and all of you, for the great honour I have been paid".